Energy Matters Global and Domestic

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by GiveMeABreak » 14 Jun 2019, 22:15

^ Exactly as I have said before elsewhere. These things have a backdoor to do God knows what. An utter intrusion and will never see the light of day in our household whilst there is still a choice.

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white exec
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by white exec » 14 Jun 2019, 22:58

The smart meter system operates similarly here in Spain. Your contract allows various levels of access to power call-off (eg 4, 8, 11, 14, 18, 22...kW). The unit costs are much the same, but the standing (monthly) charge ("potencia") gets significantly more expensive at the higher power levels.

Having contracted for a chosen maximum power level, if you exceed it, the meter shuts off the power, but restores it when the load is reduced. It does not control power levels, but simply cuts the supply.

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by bobins » 14 Jun 2019, 23:40

In the UK, I think the reasoning behind allowing Smart Meters to potentially limit the power supply is to preserve the local electricity supply (transformer to house / building) in the exceptionally rare occasions when demand exceeds safe distribution capability. There was a spate of pavements 'exploding' due to high demand on the cabling laid beneath - I don't know if pavements still 'explode' and just aren't reported anymore or if the distro companies have upped their game and made efforts to solve the problem.

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white exec
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by white exec » 15 Jun 2019, 08:49

Before smart meters, every household was fitted with an ICP ("interruptor controle de potencia"), which was effectively just a 10,20,40amp... circuit breaker, up front in the consumer unit, to limit power call-off to the agreed/contracted level.

You're right about smart meters being able to monitor community power usage. Substations/local transformers are similarly equipped.

I did some time ago read a technical user manual for a smart meter. The level of interrogation, control, means of communication, reporting, etc etc is pretty much anything required (by the supplier). It includes data on phase usage, reactive power usage, outages, frequency and voltage deviations, tamper attempts... . A whole lot more than just remote-reading!

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by Homer » 15 Jun 2019, 20:26

Paul-R wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 21:03
Homer wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 20:20
white exec wrote:
03 Mar 2019, 09:40
- setting of a limit to the maximum power that can be pulled
I'm struggling to figure out how that will work or what will happen with your household devices if it did.
In France you pay a certain amount for a KWh and you pay more for that KWh if you want to be able to pull 45A rather than 25A. I forget the exact numbers but there are bands which progressively charge more for each KWh. As we have an LPG cylinder and a wood burning fire insert we're on the minimum.

The EDF breaker is then set accordingly and you can see the maximum amperage rate displayed that can be pulled before the breaker trips.


OK, but that's not limiting the power that's shutting it down to zero.

It's like having a speed limiter which cuts the engine out every time you reach the limit.

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by Homer » 15 Jun 2019, 20:28

bobins wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 23:40
In the UK, I think the reasoning behind allowing Smart Meters to potentially limit the power supply is to preserve the local electricity supply (transformer to house / building) in the exceptionally rare occasions when demand exceeds safe distribution capability. There was a spate of pavements 'exploding' due to high demand on the cabling laid beneath - I don't know if pavements still 'explode' and just aren't reported anymore or if the distro companies have upped their game and made efforts to solve the problem.


Surely they would just fit a breaker in the substation. Or is that too easy?

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by bobins » 15 Jun 2019, 20:44

Whilst that'd undoubtedly work, at a guess I'd say they'd prefer to penalize the heavy users rather than knock out the whole neighbourhood until the 'leccy bods can come out and fit a new breaker and make sure the local distro is actually safe and hasn't dropped out due to a genuine fault. At present I think it's not an immediate threat that they'll be power limiting to individual properties due to power demand, but I'm sure it's on their radar.

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by white exec » 15 Jun 2019, 21:32

Unless you 'cut' the supply to an over-zealous user, I guess the direct alternatives could include voltage reduction or phase-control to reduce power call-off. Both would produce some mighty strange behavior of many domestic appliances :shock: .

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by bobins » 15 Jun 2019, 21:41

I'm sure there's some future-tech already designed that will allow smart meters to communicate with smart appliances so individual appliances can be turned off to limit the household's consumption. Your EV that's charging could be put on pause for an hour or so until demand eases, or maybe your freezer could be turned off for half an hour - the frozen food inside can easily survive that long without the compressor running.
I wonder if just installing more efficient neighbourhood transformers would go along way to easing the potential problem ?

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by white exec » 16 Jun 2019, 06:55

EVs are already being eyed up as a useful ancilliary for smoothing out grid demand, and allowing more use of intermittent renewable generation. Regulations (law) being changed in UK to allow consumers to "sell back" units of stored power from EVs when reverse flow is needed. Whole bundle of considerations here...! Some radical rethinking of national policy needed on this, if the governmemt could ever get round to actually doing it.

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon » 16 Jun 2019, 08:07

Oh No. The Portugese Island of Porto Santo, with the help of Renault have beaten the UK to it despite us being world leaders in such things :-D . Granted its a bit sunnier there.



Regards Neil

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by Gibbo2286 » 16 Jun 2019, 09:58

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, when I was running my business the MEB fitted a 'maximum demand' meter.

It had two pointers, it measured the consumption through the quarter and if at any time during the quarter the draw exceeded 3kw the price was doubled for the whole usage in that quarter.

I'd guess a similar set up with a smart meter might not be too difficult.

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon » 19 Jul 2019, 11:03

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
15 May 2019, 18:54
and what is BP's take on electric cars?
At the end of this Spencer Dale compliments his two illustrators work....

"I do like this, the journey from 5 million electric cars to 300 million electric cars.....but impact on oil demand and emissions really quite small...you have captured it perfectly! Really great job. Thank you"
Episode 2


REgards Neil


We have already had BP's Spencer Dale expressing his complacent relaxed view over the impact of 300 million electric cars on oil demand and emissions.

Project electrification could well be lagging behind project veganization as plant based milks grab 4% of the UK market in 2018.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-49030175

Regards Neil

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by Gibbo2286 » 19 Jul 2019, 12:50

I seem to recall that I read somewhere that soy milk has some very harmful effects on the very young.

Just had a quick look and found this:

Are There Any Harmful Effects of Soy Milk on Babies?
Breastfeeding moms may wish to know if soy milk is safe for babies or not? The simple answer is that soy milk as a singular source of nourishment for your baby may not be such a good idea as soy milk does not contain all the essential nutrients vital for the healthy growth of a baby. However, giving it to infants below one year should be totally avoided. Some of the harmful effects of soy milk on babies are listed below:
Studies suggest that soy milk contains phytoestrogens that may trigger oestrogen-like effects in infants leading to possible health issues like increased risk of breast cancer or prostate cancer later in life. However, research in this field is inconclusive.
Some babies may be allergic to the protein in the soy milk.
In rare instances, consumption of soy milk can lead to an imbalance in thyroid levels resulting in goitre (abnormal enlargement of thyroid gland).
Feeding only soy milk to your baby can result in serious nutritional deficiencies in your baby. You may like to use soy milk more as a supplement rather than a replacement for breast milk or whole cow’s milk. If you still wish to offer soy milk to your baby, do supplement his nutrition from other dietary sources for his healthy development. It is sensible to give soy milk in moderation as it may trigger an allergic reaction. In case of any concerns regarding the effects of soy milk on your baby, it is best to seek your doctor’s advice first.

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon » 19 Jul 2019, 13:42

Plant based milks have even greater market penetration in the USA.

Wonder how many FCF members have a carton in their fridges right now.

Just like "big oil", there is "big dairy" who do everything in their power to protect their industry, and the plant-based milks are a serious threat.

We have a carton of Oat Milk this currently in the fridge, and occasionally when its on offer almond milk isnt a bad drink.
DSC02239.JPG
NF-Oat Original--package doesn't say "milk" mustn't be allowed!
Regards Neil