Dump Your Deezel

This is the place for posts that don't fit into any other category.

Moderator: RichardW

User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 16281
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 1524

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by GiveMeABreak » 30 Jun 2018, 16:06

Yes I heard that too - thank goodness somebody is sticking up for the cleaner ones. I also heard on the radio today about the CO2 emissions malarky and how overdone it is - I think it was something like 1.8% the UK contributes globally, yet China still with its "28-30%! The debate was over the Heathrow affair and how some greenies were moaning that the world was going to end over it.

MikeT
Posts: 4838
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
x 185

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by MikeT » 30 Jun 2018, 16:22

Well, to be fair, the minister was using ultra-clean diesels to stick up for the auto industry.
On "Any Questions" (R4) a panellist said CO2 emissions are in fact rising due to increased transport.

As for Heathrow, the recent vote now ensures BAA will get a hangar-load of tax-payers money, whether the runway is built or not!

User avatar
bobins
Donor 2016
Posts: 2494
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
x 529

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by bobins » 30 Jun 2018, 16:40

I had an alarming thought the other day which made for an uncomfortable few hours until it passed. Trump's import tax / duty shenanigans........ what if that caused a downturn in both global (read : Chinese) manufacturing and global shipping as US businesses step up and start manufacturing more for the domestic market. Would that cause a drop in global (Chinese) CO2 emissions ? If the import tax escalated across the globe, would that actually do more to drop the world CO2 emissions than the Paris Accord or the Kyoto Protocol ?? Please... somebody tell me that could never come true :rofl2:

User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 8624
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 570

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by NewcastleFalcon » 30 Jun 2018, 17:18

MikeT wrote:
30 Jun 2018, 15:58
It appears the government are already watering down their pledge to ban all new ICE sales by 2040, and now referrin to it as a "mission".

In fact, (I think it was during PMQ's) I heard an MP bigging-up the future of "cleaner diesels".


Was it this Mike?
https://www.julianknight.org.uk/news/lo ... ean-diesel
Speaking during questions for the Department for Business, Energy, and Industrial Strategy, Julian Knight MP for Solihull) asked Rt Hon Claire Perry MP, Minister of State (Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy) (Energy and Clean Growth) (Devizes, Conservative)

“As we rightly move towards eliminating the internal combustion engine from all new cars by 2040, does the Minister agree with me that in the short – medium term it is important to jobs and growth that we recognise the role of clean diesel engines, such as those that are in the cars that role off the production line in my local car plant?”

In response, the minister acknowledged that the elimination of the internal combustion engine had to be done “in a managed way that makes sure we preserve those jobs, and in particular the investment in clean diesel, during the transition to zero-emission vehicles."

MikeT
Posts: 4838
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
x 185

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by MikeT » 30 Jun 2018, 17:22

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
30 Jun 2018, 17:18
MikeT wrote:
30 Jun 2018, 15:58
It appears the government are already watering down their pledge to ban all new ICE sales by 2040, and now referrin to it as a "mission".

In fact, (I think it was during PMQ's) I heard an MP bigging-up the future of "cleaner diesels".


Was it this Mike?
https://www.julianknight.org.uk/news/lo ... ean-diesel
Speaking during questions for the Department for Business, Energy, and Industrial Strategy, Julian Knight MP for Solihull) asked Rt Hon Claire Perry MP, Minister of State (Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy) (Energy and Clean Growth) (Devizes, Conservative)

“As we rightly move towards eliminating the internal combustion engine from all new cars by 2040, does the Minister agree with me that in the short – medium term it is important to jobs and growth that we recognise the role of clean diesel engines, such as those that are in the cars that role off the production line in my local car plant?”

In response, the minister acknowledged that the elimination of the internal combustion engine had to be done “in a managed way that makes sure we preserve those jobs, and in particular the investment in clean diesel, during the transition to zero-emission vehicles."


Sounds about right. "....move towards eliminating...." is the "mission" rather than a pledge.

User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 8624
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 570

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by NewcastleFalcon » 30 Jun 2018, 17:30

Its on Parliamentlive

That's just the clip....the actual meeting at the House of Commons on Tuesday 12 June 2018 started at 11.33am ended 8.53pm.....quite a time-management triumph...not!

Regards Neil

wurlycorner
Posts: 1402
Joined: 30 Oct 2012, 23:37
x 58

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by wurlycorner » 30 Jun 2018, 21:13

Just caught up on this thread - just as I waded in, it coincided with when things happened in my life requiring me to take a bit of time out...

Oh well, not really worth picking it up again now, two months later!

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 7869
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 215

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Mandrake » 01 Jul 2018, 08:56

GiveMeABreak wrote:
30 Jun 2018, 16:06
Yes I heard that too - thank goodness somebody is sticking up for the cleaner ones. I also heard on the radio today about the CO2 emissions malarky and how overdone it is - I think it was something like 1.8% the UK contributes globally, yet China still with its "28-30%! The debate was over the Heathrow affair and how some greenies were moaning that the world was going to end over it.

The problem with Diesel is not CO2 (it produces less than petrol engines) its NOx and particulates.
MikeT wrote:
30 Jun 2018, 15:58
It appears the government are already watering down their pledge to ban all new ICE sales by 2040, and now referrin to it as a "mission".

In fact, (I think it was during PMQ's) I heard an MP bigging-up the future of "cleaner diesels".
Nothing has really changed as far as I can see.

The 2040 "ban" on ICE sales was misreported by the media from day one. It was never a ban on ICE vehicles. It was a ban on ICE-only vehicles.

In other words all manufacturers had to do to comply with the 2040 "ban" was to make hybrids, which many are already doing anyway. As long as there was an electric motor in it somewhere and it was capable of at least regenerative braking and some acceleration from the electric motor, they could happily fit a petrol engine as the main power source of the car and meet the regulations. (Diesel too, although Diesel would have faced specific bans in some large cities so a Hybrid Petrol makes more sense)

In fact the original Prius of more than a decade ago would have met the 2040 ban requirements to be sold! Hence why I said way back when it was first announced that it was fairly underwhelming. It was just legislating a requirement 22 years in the future that was already being met by a lot of cars today, and was not in any way shape or form forcing manufacturers to give up on ICE since they were still free to use ICE as the main power source in the car.

User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 16281
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 1524

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by GiveMeABreak » 01 Jul 2018, 09:41

Mandrake wrote:
01 Jul 2018, 08:56
GiveMeABreak wrote:
30 Jun 2018, 16:06
Yes I heard that too - thank goodness somebody is sticking up for the cleaner ones. I also heard on the radio today about the CO2 emissions malarky and how overdone it is - I think it was something like 1.8% the UK contributes globally, yet China still with its "28-30%! The debate was over the Heathrow affair and how some greenies were moaning that the world was going to end over it.
The problem with Diesel is not CO2 (it produces less than petrol engines) its NOx and particulates.
I'm fully aware of that Simon - It was CO2 they were discussing specifically in the other discussion I was referring to - not the House of Commons and not Diesel. I've written enough about DPFs and Particulate matter to know... :wink:

Gibbo2286
Posts: 3926
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:04
x 502

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Gibbo2286 » 01 Jul 2018, 10:21

'tis all academic any way, by then there will have been several changes of government and possibly attitudes depending on the world order at the time, the economics of the day will be the deciding factor.

MikeT
Posts: 4838
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
x 185

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by MikeT » 01 Jul 2018, 16:33

Mandrake wrote:
01 Jul 2018, 08:56

The 2040 "ban" on ICE sales was misreported by the media from day one. It was never a ban on ICE vehicles. It was a ban on ICE-only vehicles.
Well, they certainly fooled me, Simon.
Do you have reference on this I can read please?

User avatar
Zelandeth
Donor 2016
Posts: 3248
Joined: 17 Nov 2014, 00:36
x 267

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Zelandeth » 01 Jul 2018, 17:06

I guess I shouldn't tell anyone then that I've just bought a 2.3 litre n/a diesel that doesn't even have a car fitted, much less a DPF or anything like that!

Edit: sorry, 2.4. I can't read apparently.
Last edited by Zelandeth on 01 Jul 2018, 22:55, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 8624
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 570

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by NewcastleFalcon » 01 Jul 2018, 17:31

Here's a bit of woolly bullsh*t
DEFRA/DOT UK plan for tackling roadside nitrogen dioxide concentrations Detailed plan July 2017

"Central to the UK government’s objective of tackling NO2 and carbon emissions is its ambition for Britain to lead the world in electric vehicle technology and use. The government will end the sale of all new conventional petrol and diesel cars and vans by 2040"
And the biggest BS The Governments "ambition for Britain to lead the world in electric vehicle technology and use." Nothing wrong with the ambition of course, but we have to catch up with the world first before we assume our rightful position as global leaders!

Regards Neil

Online
Hell Razor5543
NOT Alistair or Simon
Posts: 9404
Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47
x 645

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 01 Jul 2018, 17:35

Well, we could always try scaling up the clockwork cars!

https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/ind ... _(Märklin)

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 7869
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 215

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Mandrake » 01 Jul 2018, 23:29

MikeT wrote:
01 Jul 2018, 16:33
Mandrake wrote:
01 Jul 2018, 08:56

The 2040 "ban" on ICE sales was misreported by the media from day one. It was never a ban on ICE vehicles. It was a ban on ICE-only vehicles.
Well, they certainly fooled me, Simon.
Do you have reference on this I can read please?

Here are a couple that say it is an outright ban:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40723581

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -from-2040

And here are a couple that clarify that hybrid cars that have an electric only range of 50 miles or more will be exempt from the ban:

https://www.ft.com/content/e2c212a2-4f8 ... 83af05aea7

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/1 ... f-50-a-day

I was wrong about a non-plugin hybrid being allowed under the new rules, but a PHEV with 50+ mile range which still has a petrol/diesel engine would be allowed.

No existing PHEV's in the UK market except the new LEVC Black cab can meet this requirement as most PHEV's have a 30 mile electric range or less, however to skirt the ban the manufacturers would just need to put a slightly bigger battery in to increase the range from 30 to 50+ miles and not change anything else....